My Second Podcast

I was grateful for the opportunity to share my story on Richard Ostler's Listen, Learn, and Love podcast. The Zoom call was on January 18th and the episode was published over the weekend. This is his summary:

Episode 377: Wendi Jagerson, Active LDS, Bipolar, MS, Family Left the Church

My friend Wendi Jagerson, married mother of two and one grandson, bravely shares her journey with complicated life challenges that started after her successful mission in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area. Wendi starts with her journey with Bipolar II Disorder which was diagnosed in 1995. Wendi talks about how it eventually became very difficult to leave her own home and how she wasn't able to enjoy church or social contact for several years. Wendi talks about her journey to find hope and healing.

Wendi continues with her husband John opening up about his unbelief in 2012 (he is an atheist) and her two adult children also leaving the Church. Wendi talks about how she loves and admires John and how she is keeping the family circle strong and together, while leaving all this at the Savior’s feet. It is a remarkable love story including the birth of their grandson.

Wendi also shares about her MS diagnosis in 2013.

Wendi’s life is very different than she envisioned flying home from her mission in 1994. But Wendi’s story, like many of our stories, is about the realities of mortality—and how to find hope and healing living with those realities—and the role of therapists, medication, friends, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ to give perspective to move forward.

If you are in a tough spot, please listen to Wendi's story. It will give you hope and better tools to move forward. Thank you Wendi for the courage to share your story. You and your family are awesome.

Richard 'Papa' Ostler

• The podcast is listed under three different categories on three different platforms, so I hope it helps the people who need to hear it!

Listen, Learn, and Love: Depression / Mental Illness/ OCD podcasts

Listen, Learn, and Love: Women's Voices podcasts

Listen, Learn, and Love: LDS Faith Questions podcasts

Also on: iTunes, Soundcloud, and Spotify

My Podcast Interview

I listened to this podcast right after I woke up this morning. 

I've been so nervous ever since Tamara asked to interview me right after General Conference. The interview was via Zoom back on October 14th. 

I'm so grateful it wasn't a disaster! That means God was totally involved. So, yay!! 

I'm also grateful to have this small summary of my journey--since my book isn't nearly as easy to get through. Writing is still so hard for me and I'm still such a beginner. 

I've been listening to her book on Audible and I'm seriously so impressed with Tamara's talent--with that and with the podcast. 

I'm really grateful that she reached out to me, so that I could meet her. 

I've gone back to listen to several of her podcasts, and I always feel uplifted. It's a great resource during these COVID-19 times and also as we head into the gray days of winter. 

I hope there will be something helpful in what I say, if you choose to listen to it. 

• Here is the information she sent me this morning:

Your interview is LIVE and will be listened to by the Stories of Hope in Hard Times audience today! That is pretty sweet considering you rocked the interview! 

I will be sharing your podcast on all of my social media accounts—Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Your podcast information will also go out in my newsletter today. 

Thank you for sharing such an amazing story of hope! 

Click this link to listen to your podcast and see your show notes and transcript on my website. 

You can also find it on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuGdoLgmpls 

You can also listen to your show on other podcasting apps and websites: iTunes or Podcasts, Stitcher, Podbean, Soundcloud, YouTube, iHeartRadio, and even at https://resiliencetalk.airtime.pro/#. 

Have an awesome day and enjoy sharing your story of hope! 

Tamara 

Podcast preparation

• This is how I filled out the questionnaire the host of the podcast sent yesterday afternoon:  

1. Tell me a little bit about yourself, so that I can introduce you on the podcast. (Ex: where you have lived, worked, passions, awards, family, creative endeavors or personal interests important things to you). This is a little bio of sorts. Please write in the third person and keep it to five sentences or less. 

Wendi grew up in Palmyra, New York; Orem, Utah; Tallahassee, Florida; and Longmont, Colorado. She has been married to John for a quarter of a century. They are the parents of two adult children and grandparents to a very loved baby grandson. She enjoys walking and talking with friends and family, taking pictures in nature, and spending time with her grandson. 

2. What is an interesting little known fact about you?

My Tetris skills help me with closet and drawer organization. :) 

3. Please share with me some of the “hard times” you have experienced and would like to share on the podcast. 

* I have struggled with clinical depression for most of my life. My actual diagnosis is Bipolar 2 Disorder, which is heavy on depression interspersed with periods of elevated mood called hypomania. Along with that, I have struggled with social anxiety, which made it very difficult to leave my house for several years. I also have overlapping challenges with generalized anxiety, perfectionism, and some obsessive compulsive tendencies. 

* I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in January 2013. My right side has different levels of loss of feeling and discomfort from my ribs to my toes. My “uniform” has become heavy skinny jeans and very supportive sneakers. When I wear that combination, I have less discomfort and can walk without limping. 

* My husband and adult children no longer believe in the same way I do and no longer participate with me in organized religion. However, they continue to be some of the best people I know. This unexpected circumstance has caused some ongoing dissonance and loneliness in my life since August 2012. 

* Our children both had some medical conditions, which ended up triggering long-term emotional distress for me. Our son was in the NICU for the first 10 days of his life. Our daughter suffered from epilepsy during her growing up years, which required me to stay in the hospital with her for almost two weeks on two different occasions. 

4. What were the top 3-5 lessons you learned during your "hard times?” (You can list more than 5 if you want). 

* Comparing my life, accomplishments, or progress with others often causes discouragement and self-doubt. 

* We each have different strengths and weaknesses that give us the ability to influence, contribute, serve, love, empathize, and connect with people in unique and important ways. 

* Perfectionism isn’t the same thing as perfection. It causes unnecessary suffering in the form of stress, shame, and guilt while trying to achieve the impossible. 

* Walking in the fresh air and sunshine can help almost any problem seem a little more manageable. The act of moving your body and choosing to put one foot in front of the other is an effective way to change the direction of your thoughts—and eventually your life. 

* Focusing on “small or something,” instead of “all or nothing” is helpful when feeling immobilized by anxiety, depression, or perfectionism. Breaking large problems into smaller ones or choosing to just “do the next right thing” is a powerful way to cope with feeling overwhelmed. 

* Mental illness is not a character flaw and when we talk about it more with others, we can lessen the stigma surrounding it, along with understanding that it affects many more people than we realize. 

5. How have you changed or what have you done differently because of your challenges? 

* I gradually learned to face my fear of leaving the house by walking to nearby destinations each day—to shop for a few items or run small errands. 

* After that, I continued learning to overcome my social anxiety by going out of my way to visit over 500 women. In the process, I was able to help several who also suffered with depression and anxiety. I also found some dear friends who have been an uplifting and supportive influence in my life. 

* Those activities built enough confidence in myself to return to college and earn an associate degree at Utah Valley University when my daughter started attending there after high school graduation. I was never able to take more than 6-9 credits each semester, but I rarely missed class and learned to turn in homework assignments early (unlike the first time as a young adult when I was often immobilized by anxiety and depression). 

* It also gave me the courage to move to a new home that we built to better fit my needs for MS. We lived in a four-level-split for over 18 years, but it became too difficult for me to climb stairs several time each day. So we built a home across town with main-level living and room to accommodate possible future wheelchair needs. Because of that, we have a place for our daughter and grandson to live in our basement. 

* I am still trying to learn how to self-comfort, instead of self-criticize. Showing compassion for others in their difficult circumstances is much easier for me than extending that same compassion to myself. 

6. Do you have a favorite Bible verse that you would like to share that became meaningful to you during your difficulty? 

* Philippians 4:13 ~ “I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.” 

 (That verse has helped me develop self-confidence and the strength to overcome anxiety and discouragement.) 

* Proverbs 3:5-6 ~ “Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.” 

 (Those verses have helped me better cope with difficult circumstances that have been confusing and overwhelming in life.) 

7. Are there websites, books, music or other resources you would recommend to someone in a similar circumstance? 

The music and especially lyrics of Hilary Weeks (an inspirational, Christian singer) has become a type of soundtrack to my journey. In addition to her many CDs, she now has an inexpensive subscription program called “Live All In” where she releases a new song with additional material each month. More than anything else, her music helps interrupt the downward spiral of my thoughts and begins to replace them with more uplifting thoughts. 

8. Do you want to be able to have people contact you after the show? (Ex: on a website or on Facebook if they really connect with you and your story). If yes, please share your contact information. 

If people wanted to contact me, my writing blog is “Wend Your Way.” I’m not currently posting on it, but it includes many of Hilary Weeks’ lyrics, along with experiences and lessons I’ve learned during my journey. People could leave a comment with their contact information there.

*** 

After listening to 2.5 episodes of her podcast last night and this morning, I decided to post several updates—so there will be more than just half-finished book chapters on this blog. It has been very soothing to the anticipatory anxiety I was starting to feel about the upcoming interview, which will be on Wednesday morning. 

This is the "head shot" I sent
(my husband took it down by the Ashton's house on one of our walks a few months ago)

This is the picture I wish I could have sent.
It was taken of me and our grandson at the beginning of August. 

More waves of emotion (second thought download to my life coach on October 6, 2020)

• Post-General Conference update to my coach on Tuesday afternoon (adapted for this blog):

My emotions have been all over the place since our last coaching session. Last night, I wanted to send an email and tell you I was quitting again. I'm so grateful that I didn't. I will try to share what has happened. I just wrote it all in my purple notebook. 

As I mentioned before, I stopped following Jody Moore (and also my friend who has recently become a life coach) on Instagram and unsubscribed from their podcasts on Saturday evening during the General Women's Meeting. I was so sad about it. But now I understand why. 

After praying this morning (which I have rarely done consistently), I stopped following Hilary Weeks, Emily Freeman, David Butler, and "Don't Miss This" study on Instagram. Instead, I started following four accounts that focus more regularly on Come Follow Me, General Conference, and beautiful art in connection with them. I realized that they (and Kenneth Cope and Brad Wilcox) are all extroverts and are very popular. Plus, I realized that when I follow them and interact with them, I feel like I am inferior and not contributing to the world in a positive way. 

I cried on Sunday evening after my husband did the sacrament for me (because I thought it would help me feel less empty after Conference), but it just made me feel more sad that I couldn't talk about it with anyone in my family. I accidentally mentioned that there would be a temple built in Lindon too, which was definitely the wrong thing to say to our son. 

I cried so much yesterday morning also. It ended up being the day off of our grandson's dad, so he watched our grandson—and I didn't have anything constructive to wake up to. I just can't figure out what to focus on. So I sit and spin my wheels—while trying to pray for direction. I texted my friend (I wrote about her in Divine Intersection #1) that I was too depressed to come and wouldn't be good company. She didn't want to pressure me, but felt like I should still come if I could. So we switched the time to noon, instead of two, and I forced myself to drive over there. 

We walked for awhile and then sat under some trees and talked before walking back to her house. She also agreed that I had a "perfect storm" of circumstances that was very difficult—especially since no friends were around to support me during the past month (except for my ministering sister a couple of times). She thought that maybe a reason I'm not getting answers or feeling inspired to do anything more is that I need to prioritize rest—since I've been so exhausted. She reminded me that my MS keeping me up at night, my depression, and also my early mornings with our grandson could all be taking a toll on my physical and emotional health. I thought that laying in bed was depression and reverting to my old ways, but she thinks it has been wise self care. My husband actually agrees. 

I forced myself to do the rowing machine for a few minutes in my husband's office after I returned home. I'm still trying to get the $340 refund from our marriage therapy, trying to decide whether to change treatments for MS (my neurologist wants me to try a ten-day pill solution, instead of an infusion), and trying to decide on a new individual therapist (two have responded and they seem much more user friendly than our previous office). I'm nervous about the side effects of changing medications and also don't want to start more therapy until I'm done with coaching and until my deductible is met (hopefully in early November). MS treatments cost $40K, so patients' assistance helps pay for them and meets our deductible—I feel like that's the only way I can contribute in a positive way to the family's finances. 

My husband also clarified that he doesn't mind if I work on my book or family history or organizing my closet—as long as I don't focus solely on one activity to the exclusion of all others (he calls them mono-activities). That is so difficult for me (with the combination of a slow warm up to activities because of depression and then hyperfocus because of obsessive compulsive tendencies and hypomania) because I'm afraid it will disappear when the next wave of depression hits. That's what happened with my book. 

Yesterday evening, I watched 1.5 videos from that organization program I bought because I couldn't focus on actually doing something. (She is the one I had the complimentary call with that inspired me to start writing my book.) She taught "the self-coaching model" in the first video. She explained that a way to process emotion is to try to describe what is happening to an alien, who has no idea what human emotion feels like. That was a different way of thinking about it, but I don't know if it will help. As you know, that's the part that I've never been able to figure out. I started crying again because it all felt so futile. 

I decided to "give up" and go to bed early again. I continued to listen to "Grace Where You Are" by Emily Freeman, but that seemed to make my tears worse. I know that I have a really good life. I don't have struggles like the pioneers or people who have cancer or are blind, but sometimes my emotional instability is more than I feel that I can handle. My husband was very sweet and he just sat by me last night as I kept having waves of tears. (He reminded me that this has happened before and it will pass like it always does. It's almost impossible for me to remember that in the darkness of that moment, though.) 

My husband also said that I make him feel good because I always believe he can do more than he can do and it encourages him to do more than he normally would be able to. I'm grateful that there is something I'm doing right in our relationship. He wants me to practice focusing on my divine worth to Jesus, since that's what I believe. That works well when I'm feeling healthy, but I get very upset with myself during times like this when I'm floundering. He says that's exactly when I need to practice it, so I will keep trying. 

Today, when I was watching our grandson, I cleared some of the excess clutter out of his play pen (sometimes we give him empty bottles and other "garbage" to play with because he loves them so much more than toys). In that moment, I realized that I need to continue clearing out anything that makes me feel like I don't measure up. I'm not cool and stylish like Jody Moore and Hilary Weeks. 

I don't have the ability to make any money like my life coach or them. But I keep trying to tell myself that I don't need to be productive or influential to be valuable; I just need to be the best me that I can each day. I need to love and give in ways that I am able to on that day—not any other day and not like other people do. As I uncover who I really am through more simplicity, I will be able to love myself more and more. I know that was the Spirit speaking because I'm not confident enough to just write that normally. 

So I thought I should share it with my coach also. I'm nervous about our final sessions. I want them to be productive and I want to follow my coach's counsel. I know I was led to her, but I just don't know why—since I haven't been able to figure out my thoughts and feelings very well.